Reply Anthony Rose's group Healthy and Free has resumed meeting at the NW Picnic Area in Victory Park on Sundays at 3pm.
How will you be sharing the same space at the same time with them?
- AlcyoneAnthony Rose's group Healthy and Free has resumed meeting at the NW Picnic Area in Victory Park on Sundays at 3pm. How will you be sharing the same space at the same time with them? - Alcyone

Reply I will copy here a response I gave to someone else about this issue so you can hear our side of the story. Just as a note though I believe Anthony's meetings start at 1PM ours starts at 3PM. Anyway here below is my response about what happened:

Since I have been removed from the Healthy and Free telegram channel I am writing to you via e-mail. Anthony doesn't want anyone to hear anything other than his version of events apparently.

If it were only just a disagreement between Anthony and one other person that was at issue here things might be different but it isn't just Jane Anthony tried to kick out of the group, aka banish, for dubious reasons. He also attempted to banish Nastasja, John the Constitutionalist, and multiple other people, which shows a pattern of abuse that is unacceptable to me and to many others. Kenny who volunteered a lot of his time to set up the audio equipment and help Anthony do what he does is open about how badly Anthony treated him. Ken Shoufer who set up the webpage for Anthony said the same, that not only was Anthony not properly appreciative of his hard work but that he was nit-picking him to death and making it unpleasant for him to be part of the group. Jane volunteered a lot of her time and expertise to do all the graphic design and printing for H+F. Instead of properly appreciating these wonderful people and giving them credit for their part in making Healthy and Free flourish, Anthony chose to portray himself as the sole reason H+F grew to the point it did. Anthony wants to take all the credit for the group but that is hardly the reality. Jane, Kenny, Ken, and many others earned their tickets to attend those meetings. Even if a person has done nothing to help H+F they still have every right to attend the meetings just as any free American does. I myself was the speaker at two H+F meetings, one of which I stepped in at the last minute when Anthony had a cancellation. I honestly think Anthony thinks of me as just a backup and not really important and not as prestigious as some of his other speakers. Well maybe he is right about the prestige part. The point is though he shows very little respect to me and to many others.

Multiple people, not just Jane, have serious issues with Anthony which is why they have joined the People's Rights Sunday meeting and are now involved in making our meeting flourish. But lets just say hypothetically it was only a dispute between Jane and Anthony we would still have a major problem because Anthony has become, or always was, a petty dictator and he behaves as such. Yes it is a small group but none the less he is behaving like the dictator of it. At H+F you do things Anthony's way or it's the highway for you, banishment! That is neither healthy nor free nor is it the American way. People's Rights stands against tyranny and that includes big old nasty government tyranny or Anthony's petty tyranny over that small group of people on Sundays.

Even if this was just a dispute between Jane and Anthony I would still have to speak out against what Anthony did to her. I will go one step further Kam, lets say Jane was totally wrong (she wasn't) in every way and Anthony was the only one in the exchange that was mistreated, that still does not give Anthony the right to behave like Stalin or some monarch with the power to banish people from the kingdom. What Anthony did to Jane was wrong on every level. Banishment is evil. America was founded on the principle that the people are in charge and the government exists to protect the freedoms of their bosses, the people. Yeah I know those principles have been corrupted but that is still the way it was intended by the founders. Of the people, by the people, and for the people is the way it is supposed to be. So what that means is even if you think the president is a scumbag and you say so publicly the president was specifically NOT given the power to banish that person from America. In fact that persons right to call the president a scumbag to his face is guaranteed in the 1st amendment to the Constitution. Anthony should have behaved like a leader and resolved his issues with Jane privately, or just let it go, but he should have NEVER EVER used his perceived authority to retaliate against her banishing her from her community she helped to build.

So Kam if you do not see anything wrong with what Anthony did to many of us and is still doing to others that is your prerogative. You can attend his meetings and obey his dictates all you want and miss out on our meetings if you choose. I do not tolerate tyranny myself, I stand against it. If someone is not welcome at H+F they are welcome at People's Rights. If someone wants to attend Anthony's meetings and People's Rights meetings they are welcome to do that too. Our meetings are run by the group that volunteers their time to make them happen. We don't have a dictator, we have the people themselves run the group. We do not banish people. We have created a real free speech forum where you can come and speak your mind about me or anyone else if you like. Remember though that we all have the same right to speak our mind about you too and to respond in kind as we see fit. That is real free speech. If you or Anthony want to come and sound off during our open microphone period at the end of our meetings please do but don't be surprised if the rebuttals sting a bit.

Just for the record Kam and you can pass this along to Anthony if you wish, anyone can attend meetings in a public park and there isn't a damned thing anyone can do about it. If Anthony wants to keep abusing people that exercise their right to attend H+F meetings in the park I might just organize a group myself to come and prove to him and his henchmen that real American's stand for freedom and we don't run from petty tyrants. Trust me when I tell you that Anthony is small potatoes compared to the forces of evil myself and People's Rights is engaged in defeating.

To be honest Anthony and most people that attend those meetings are fledglings when it comes to real activism. H+F really doesn't engage in much activism at all nor does the group know how to be effective at it. People's Rights was set up and organized by real patriots and genuine activists that have literally sacrificed their very lives in the struggle for freedom. Just look into the Bundy Ranch standoff, the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife refuge in Oregon, and the LaVoy Finicum story for a taste of what real freedom fighters do. We don't stand around and complain like most people we take action. Here is just one action I was involved with 15 years ago.

Real time problems with Bill Maher part one and two links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDhSKByU3I4&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcISHrsZP3E

It is really too bad that Anthony chose to embrace tyranny and has allowed his ego to run amok because he could have focused H+F on helping to overcoming tyranny and on making the world a better place. Now he has become the very tyrant he claims he is standing against. Even still today though he could admit he made a mistake and come clean and regain the respect of a lot of people. Perhaps in time we could even work together toward a positive outcome for our country. That will only ever happen though if he can do the self reflection necessary to change and make amends. Maybe you can reason with him Kam, a lot of us have tried, but you may be able to reach him. I wish you luck and success with whatever you do in the future unless, of course, you choose to embrace tyranny, in which case I will resist you tooth and nail to the bitter end lol.

Sincerely,

Adam Ruff

P.S. Since I have been banned from the H+F telegram channel in an attempt to silence me I am going to post this letter for everyone to see so everyone has the opportunity to hear another side of the issue other than just Anthony's. I will not be muzzled by anyone. Anyone who wants to should feel free to post this on the H+F telegram channel. Censorship is evil and that is how you defeat it so go for it folks.I will copy here a response I gave to someone else about this issue so you can hear our side of the story. Just as a note though I believe Anthony's meetings start at 1PM ours starts at 3PM. Anyway here below is my response about what happened: Since I have been removed from the Healthy and Free telegram channel I am writing to you via e-mail. Anthony doesn't want anyone to hear anything other than his version of events apparently. If it were only just a disagreement between Anthony and one other person that was at issue here things might be different but it isn't just Jane Anthony tried to kick out of the group, aka banish, for dubious reasons. He also attempted to banish Nastasja, John the Constitutionalist, and multiple other people, which shows a pattern of abuse that is unacceptable to me and to many others. Kenny who volunteered a lot of his time to set up the audio equipment and help Anthony do what he does is open about how badly Anthony treated him. Ken Shoufer who set up the webpage for Anthony said the same, that not only was Anthony not properly appreciative of his hard work but that he was nit-picking him to death and making it unpleasant for him to be part of the group. Jane volunteered a lot of her time and expertise to do all the graphic design and printing for H+F. Instead of properly appreciating these wonderful people and giving them credit for their part in making Healthy and Free flourish, Anthony chose to portray himself as the sole reason H+F grew to the point it did. Anthony wants to take all the credit for the group but that is hardly the reality. Jane, Kenny, Ken, and many others earned their tickets to attend those meetings. Even if a person has done nothing to help H+F they still have every right to attend the meetings just as any free American does. I myself was the speaker at two H+F meetings, one of which I stepped in at the last minute when Anthony had a cancellation. I honestly think Anthony thinks of me as just a backup and not really important and not as prestigious as some of his other speakers. Well maybe he is right about the prestige part. The point is though he shows very little respect to me and to many others. Multiple people, not just Jane, have serious issues with Anthony which is why they have joined the People's Rights Sunday meeting and are now involved in making our meeting flourish. But lets just say hypothetically it was only a dispute between Jane and Anthony we would still have a major problem because Anthony has become, or always was, a petty dictator and he behaves as such. Yes it is a small group but none the less he is behaving like the dictator of it. At H+F you do things Anthony's way or it's the highway for you, banishment! That is neither healthy nor free nor is it the American way. People's Rights stands against tyranny and that includes big old nasty government tyranny or Anthony's petty tyranny over that small group of people on Sundays. Even if this was just a dispute between Jane and Anthony I would still have to speak out against what Anthony did to her. I will go one step further Kam, lets say Jane was totally wrong (she wasn't) in every way and Anthony was the only one in the exchange that was mistreated, that still does not give Anthony the right to behave like Stalin or some monarch with the power to banish people from the kingdom. What Anthony did to Jane was wrong on every level. Banishment is evil. America was founded on the principle that the people are in charge and the government exists to protect the freedoms of their bosses, the people. Yeah I know those principles have been corrupted but that is still the way it was intended by the founders. Of the people, by the people, and for the people is the way it is supposed to be. So what that means is even if you think the president is a scumbag and you say so publicly the president was specifically NOT given the power to banish that person from America. In fact that persons right to call the president a scumbag to his face is guaranteed in the 1st amendment to the Constitution. Anthony should have behaved like a leader and resolved his issues with Jane privately, or just let it go, but he should have NEVER EVER used his perceived authority to retaliate against her banishing her from her community she helped to build. So Kam if you do not see anything wrong with what Anthony did to many of us and is still doing to others that is your prerogative. You can attend his meetings and obey his dictates all you want and miss out on our meetings if you choose. I do not tolerate tyranny myself, I stand against it. If someone is not welcome at H+F they are welcome at People's Rights. If someone wants to attend Anthony's meetings and People's Rights meetings they are welcome to do that too. Our meetings are run by the group that volunteers their time to make them happen. We don't have a dictator, we have the people themselves run the group. We do not banish people. We have created a real free speech forum where you can come and speak your mind about me or anyone else if you like. Remember though that we all have the same right to speak our mind about you too and to respond in kind as we see fit. That is real free speech. If you or Anthony want to come and sound off during our open microphone period at the end of our meetings please do but don't be surprised if the rebuttals sting a bit. Just for the record Kam and you can pass this along to Anthony if you wish, anyone can attend meetings in a public park and there isn't a damned thing anyone can do about it. If Anthony wants to keep abusing people that exercise their right to attend H+F meetings in the park I might just organize a group myself to come and prove to him and his henchmen that real American's stand for freedom and we don't run from petty tyrants. Trust me when I tell you that Anthony is small potatoes compared to the forces of evil myself and People's Rights is engaged in defeating. To be honest Anthony and most people that attend those meetings are fledglings when it comes to real activism. H+F really doesn't engage in much activism at all nor does the group know how to be effective at it. People's Rights was set up and organized by real patriots and genuine activists that have literally sacrificed their very lives in the struggle for freedom. Just look into the Bundy Ranch standoff, the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife refuge in Oregon, and the LaVoy Finicum story for a taste of what real freedom fighters do. We don't stand around and complain like most people we take action. Here is just one action I was involved with 15 years ago. Real time problems with Bill Maher part one and two links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDhSKByU3I4&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcISHrsZP3E It is really too bad that Anthony chose to embrace tyranny and has allowed his ego to run amok because he could have focused H+F on helping to overcoming tyranny and on making the world a better place. Now he has become the very tyrant he claims he is standing against. Even still today though he could admit he made a mistake and come clean and regain the respect of a lot of people. Perhaps in time we could even work together toward a positive outcome for our country. That will only ever happen though if he can do the self reflection necessary to change and make amends. Maybe you can reason with him Kam, a lot of us have tried, but you may be able to reach him. I wish you luck and success with whatever you do in the future unless, of course, you choose to embrace tyranny, in which case I will resist you tooth and nail to the bitter end lol. Sincerely, Adam Ruff P.S. Since I have been banned from the H+F telegram channel in an attempt to silence me I am going to post this letter for everyone to see so everyone has the opportunity to hear another side of the issue other than just Anthony's. I will not be muzzled by anyone. Anyone who wants to should feel free to post this on the H+F telegram channel. Censorship is evil and that is how you defeat it so go for it folks.

Reply First off I BCC'ed a large number of people on this message so it's out in the open, in the light of day, where it belongs.

Anthony,

I have heard the lies you are spreading about the people's rights meeting and me in particular but I want to address something else here first before I get into that. The first thing I want to accomplish with this letter is to educate you on what constitutes "harassment" and what constitutes free speech because you do not seem to know the difference and neither do your henchmen/sycophants. Speech you do not like is not "harassment". For clarity here is the information on what actually constitutes harassment directly from the California courts: https://www.courts.ca.gov/1258.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en You will see once you read that information that people who express their displeasure with how you treat them are not "harassing" you but rather are expressing their opinions of your behavior. For example I think you are a tyrant just like Klaus Schwab, only on a much smaller scale, for attempting to banish Jane, Nastasja, John the Constitutionalist, and now me from our community we ALL helped to create. I say "try" to banish because you have no authority whatsoever to banish any of us from your meetings in a public park, especially since the meetings are open to the general public. You do not own me or anyone else and I want you to be fully aware of that, so don't even try to intimidate me or anyone else into leaving like you did last week to me. I am not a person you are capable of intimidating so don't even try. We do not have to obey your dictates and I for one will not obey them. I will stand with my friends and listen to your speakers if I want to and you are not going to bully me or them away.

Now all that having been said when you knowingly and intentionally tell lies about a person, such as when you said to your group that I used foul language and flipped you off, you are treading close to a slander issue. I have no interest in going after you for slander but I do want to stress to you that knowingly and intentionally lying about someone in order to damage their reputation is slander. Here is the thing though, even if I did use foul language and flipped someone off that too is protected free speech and there is nothing illegal about it. Did you know it is NOT illegal to flip off a cop? I don't do that though and I don't like it so I know you are projecting a bit when you accuse me of doing it. Your henchwoman Jenny did lose her cool and used some foul language against me and Jane both but I never did. I don't lose my cool, especially not when I am dealing with an insignificant issue like ours and beginner level bullies like you.

Bottom line is you behaved badly by attempting to banish people from your perceived kingdom and several of us told you what we thought about your tyrannical behavior. You are the one that created the problem and the division by mistreating people. A group of us (not me alone) including Jane, Nastasja, Kenny, Ken Shoufer, John Kacarab, Charles, and Ben among several others decided to create another meeting so that the people you mistreated and abused would have a place to gather with all their friends again. You caused that rift not me and not us. You did it.

Also lets get it straight that you moved your meeting to Carrows so you could dictate who could come and who could not because it is private property. AFTER you did that we started our meetings up in Victory Park so the people you abused would have a place to go again to be among their friends free from your bad attitude. After we started our meetings in the park you decided for whatever reason to abandon Carrows and come back to the park. So that is the way it actually went down as opposed to the way you portrayed it to your group last week where you claimed that we set up our meeting to spite you. We didn't start our meetings to spite you, we did it so those of us who didn't want to put up with your abuse, condescension, and control freakishness had a place to meet free from all of that. We created a real free speech forum where everyone is welcome. We created a bigger, better, and much more free environment, run by a group instead of a single dictator. Even you are welcome to come and step up to the microphone during our 30 minute open mic period at the end of each meeting. We can respond though unlike at your meetings and unlike your telegram channel. Remember deleting me from your telegram channel? Did you also delete my letters I posted there? I bet you did. There is nothing healthy or free about behaving like big tech censors Anthony.

You go ahead and do your meetings and we will do ours, much bigger and much better, but keep in mind that anyone that wants to can attend either one of our meetings and there is nothing you can do to stop that. Now if a person does engage in REAL harassment they can be asked to leave and if they continue with REAL harassment the police can remove them. You just do not seem to know what REAL harassment actually is so I encourage you to read that link above. I also recommend you read the 1st amendment to the Constitution, perhaps for the first time, and figure out what the difference is between harassment and protected free speech.

Good luck with your meetings going forward, but please refrain from lying about me and our group. We are not interested in disrupting your meetings, you do that all on your own. Remember last week I was just standing there silently and you and your henchman came up to me and created the disruption by trying to bully me into leaving. That is captured on video by the way so don't lie about it. Also your lies about me and our group are recorded so if you deny you said what you said you may lose your credibility when we play it for everyone to hear. So Anthony just stop it all right now and do your thing and we will do ours okay? I have bigger tyrants to fry than you so just move along and the world will still keep spinning. Believe me this is not a fight you want to continue to escalate because when it comes to my rights and the people's rights I don't back down to anyone. I have been in the frying pan with real activism and real consequences before and I don't think you have so please do not escalate this further.

FYI: In an effort to both promote our speakers goals and to educate as many people as possible all our meetings audio and videos are posted for anyone to access here: 9/25/2022 - People's Rights Open Mic Sunday Meeting in Pasadena at Victory Park. Just scroll down to the Previous Speakers area of the post and take a look and a listen you just might learn something.

P.S. I am going to post this on the people's rights newsroom under the Sunday meeting posting so that you cannot delete it or stop me from speaking. Anyone copied on this message or reading this in the Newsroom feel free to send this letter to anyone who may have been misled by Anthony about our group and what we stand for. Although he will delete it most likely you can also post it in the Healthy and Free telegram channel (I am banned) so all those folks can see it too. Real free speech is only feared by tyrants Anthony and only they try to silence others.

Adam RuffFirst off I BCC'ed a large number of people on this message so it's out in the open, in the light of day, where it belongs. Anthony, I have heard the lies you are spreading about the people's rights meeting and me in particular but I want to address something else here first before I get into that. The first thing I want to accomplish with this letter is to educate you on what constitutes "harassment" and what constitutes free speech because you do not seem to know the difference and neither do your henchmen/sycophants. Speech you do not like is not "harassment". For clarity here is the information on what actually constitutes harassment directly from the California courts: https://www.courts.ca.gov/1258.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en You will see once you read that information that people who express their displeasure with how you treat them are not "harassing" you but rather are expressing their opinions of your behavior. For example I think you are a tyrant just like Klaus Schwab, only on a much smaller scale, for attempting to banish Jane, Nastasja, John the Constitutionalist, and now me from our community we ALL helped to create. I say "try" to banish because you have no authority whatsoever to banish any of us from your meetings in a public park, especially since the meetings are open to the general public. You do not own me or anyone else and I want you to be fully aware of that, so don't even try to intimidate me or anyone else into leaving like you did last week to me. I am not a person you are capable of intimidating so don't even try. We do not have to obey your dictates and I for one will not obey them. I will stand with my friends and listen to your speakers if I want to and you are not going to bully me or them away. Now all that having been said when you knowingly and intentionally tell lies about a person, such as when you said to your group that I used foul language and flipped you off, you are treading close to a slander issue. I have no interest in going after you for slander but I do want to stress to you that knowingly and intentionally lying about someone in order to damage their reputation is slander. Here is the thing though, even if I did use foul language and flipped someone off that too is protected free speech and there is nothing illegal about it. Did you know it is NOT illegal to flip off a cop? I don't do that though and I don't like it so I know you are projecting a bit when you accuse me of doing it. Your henchwoman Jenny did lose her cool and used some foul language against me and Jane both but I never did. I don't lose my cool, especially not when I am dealing with an insignificant issue like ours and beginner level bullies like you. Bottom line is you behaved badly by attempting to banish people from your perceived kingdom and several of us told you what we thought about your tyrannical behavior. You are the one that created the problem and the division by mistreating people. A group of us (not me alone) including Jane, Nastasja, Kenny, Ken Shoufer, John Kacarab, Charles, and Ben among several others decided to create another meeting so that the people you mistreated and abused would have a place to gather with all their friends again. You caused that rift not me and not us. You did it. Also lets get it straight that you moved your meeting to Carrows so you could dictate who could come and who could not because it is private property. AFTER you did that we started our meetings up in Victory Park so the people you abused would have a place to go again to be among their friends free from your bad attitude. After we started our meetings in the park you decided for whatever reason to abandon Carrows and come back to the park. So that is the way it actually went down as opposed to the way you portrayed it to your group last week where you claimed that we set up our meeting to spite you. We didn't start our meetings to spite you, we did it so those of us who didn't want to put up with your abuse, condescension, and control freakishness had a place to meet free from all of that. We created a real free speech forum where everyone is welcome. We created a bigger, better, and much more free environment, run by a group instead of a single dictator. Even you are welcome to come and step up to the microphone during our 30 minute open mic period at the end of each meeting. We can respond though unlike at your meetings and unlike your telegram channel. Remember deleting me from your telegram channel? Did you also delete my letters I posted there? I bet you did. There is nothing healthy or free about behaving like big tech censors Anthony. You go ahead and do your meetings and we will do ours, much bigger and much better, but keep in mind that anyone that wants to can attend either one of our meetings and there is nothing you can do to stop that. Now if a person does engage in REAL harassment they can be asked to leave and if they continue with REAL harassment the police can remove them. You just do not seem to know what REAL harassment actually is so I encourage you to read that link above. I also recommend you read the 1st amendment to the Constitution, perhaps for the first time, and figure out what the difference is between harassment and protected free speech. Good luck with your meetings going forward, but please refrain from lying about me and our group. We are not interested in disrupting your meetings, you do that all on your own. Remember last week I was just standing there silently and you and your henchman came up to me and created the disruption by trying to bully me into leaving. That is captured on video by the way so don't lie about it. Also your lies about me and our group are recorded so if you deny you said what you said you may lose your credibility when we play it for everyone to hear. So Anthony just stop it all right now and do your thing and we will do ours okay? I have bigger tyrants to fry than you so just move along and the world will still keep spinning. Believe me this is not a fight you want to continue to escalate because when it comes to my rights and the people's rights I don't back down to anyone. I have been in the frying pan with real activism and real consequences before and I don't think you have so please do not escalate this further. FYI: In an effort to both promote our speakers goals and to educate as many people as possible all our meetings audio and videos are posted for anyone to access here: 9/25/2022 - People's Rights Open Mic Sunday Meeting in Pasadena at Victory Park. Just scroll down to the Previous Speakers area of the post and take a look and a listen you just might learn something. P.S. I am going to post this on the people's rights newsroom under the Sunday meeting posting so that you cannot delete it or stop me from speaking. Anyone copied on this message or reading this in the Newsroom feel free to send this letter to anyone who may have been misled by Anthony about our group and what we stand for. Although he will delete it most likely you can also post it in the Healthy and Free telegram channel (I am banned) so all those folks can see it too. Real free speech is only feared by tyrants Anthony and only they try to silence others. Adam Ruff